Author Topic: ESPN Films Presents: 30 for 30  (Read 5491 times)

Corndog

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2011, 07:41:26 PM »
A buck a movie would be an incredible deal.
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Antares

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 06:54:21 AM »
I wish lived during his reign as king because I am sure it was a sight to see, even if he was an arrogant annoyance to some.

I can tell you as one of the many who couldn't stand his arrogance, that I always relished the fights where he got his clock cleaned, but this fight should never have happened. I remember the weeks prior to it, and Ali's usual bravado, but there was something different this time. He spoke much slower and almost as if in a daze. I remember telling my father after watching an interview on Wide World of Sports, that I felt he was going to get crushed because there's something wrong with him.

It is hard to point directly to this fight to blame for a lot of what happened to Ali afterward, but it is also hard not to say it was a major player in his decline as a boxer and as a functioning person.

This fight wasn't the cause, but more of a compounding to what he had suffered in previous bouts, with the fight against Ken Norton being where the seed was planted. Look at some of the headshots he receives from Norton in the 10th round. There is no doubt that he should have never continued this fight, especially with a broken jaw. .

http://youtu.be/Vz2EILmT1_0
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jbissell

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 08:19:27 AM »
Muhammad and Larry (Albert Maysles & Bradley Kaplan, 2009)
If I had one gripe about the film it's that I wish it had been longer than an hour because I wanted to spend more time with and learn more about these two. Easily the best of the series so far.

For sure. I think it could've easily been 30 min. longer and just as good, if not better.

Corndog

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 12:59:06 PM »
Without Bias (Kirk Fraser, 2009)

I was first introduced to the person of Len Bias in High School health class. The class was very lazily taught by the head basketball coach at the time and as such I never really learned anything that has stuck with me. In fact, the instance of Len Bias is only memorable for Dick Vitale, as we watched a clip of a speech he gave at a basketball clinic. In the speech Vitale spoke very fondly of the person and talent of Len Bias. He spoke of it all being taken away to the careless use of the "Big C", cocaine. He spoke with great passion and emotion. I would have never have done drugs anyway, but a video of someone speaking 10 years ago is the only thing I ever took from that Health class, and even then I didn't really learn who Len Bias was.

Bias was a basketball superstar to be. He was a local treasure in Maryland and attended the University of Maryland for four years where he brought his coach Lefty Driesell an ACC championship. He was described as a raw talent who over his college years developed into a potential NBA all star. He played alongside North Carolina's Michael Jordan and was even compared to the greatness of the greatest basketball player ever, arguably. But soon after being drafted #2 overall to the reigning NBA champion Boston Celtics, Bias died. The report was that his death was caused by intoxication from cocaine.

The problem with the documentary is that I'm not too sure I know very much more now than I did going into the film. Director Kirk Fraser presents a very straight forward approach to the story of Len Bias, opening with an examination of Bias as a phenomenal player, calling in all the current ESPN guys to prove his point. Then he goes on to the chronological timeline of events that lead to his tragic demise. He graduates, gets drafted, dies, ripple effect in the world of sports and beyond. But as an hour long documentary every thing seems truncated and glossed over. Len Bias was a sensational player and his story is so huge that I cannot imagine this being a testament to that story or that person.

For such a heartbreaking tragedy, there seems to be little in the way of emotion, even from the Bias parents, but that has to be from the presentation and interview methods taken by Fraser because I know it was startling, especially after they lost their second son Jay to a murder just four years later. But again, that story seems added on and bears no effect on the film. Fraser just fails to add anything to an already great story. He has every opportunity to make a great film here given the material, but instead chooses to give us a bland and ineffective film.

The series to this point has done a nice job of mixing stories, sports and styles and for that I applaud the ambition of ESPN Films. However, it has stumbled on a couple of occasions and both times it seems to have come from a lack of passion and just downright laziness by the filmmakers. That is a bold statement and one that assumes more than I can possibly know. Ad quite frankly it is probably not fair to the filmmakers to say that, but I also can't help but think under more steady hands something more could have come of this material. The Bias story is great, but what lead to what happened to him? What came of it? And I don't just mean a couple minutes on some vague law against cocaine possession. But all of this should not detract to the reality of the story and just how tragic those few days were.

**
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Antares

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 04:39:10 PM »
At one time in my life, I really enjoyed watching NBA games, and I remember this tragedy like it was yesterday. I grew up in Massachusetts and was a big Celtics fan and when Auerbach pulled off his heist of Bias we all thought that the dynasty would live on for at least another decade.

I was playing in a charity golf tournament and a guy I used to work with, who had season tickets to the Celtics, came onto the first tee just as we were about to tee off and told us that he was inside the pro shop, buying a new golf glove, and saw the report on the news about Bias overdosing earlier in the day. We all stood there dumbstruck.
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george96

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2011, 10:01:41 AM »
Of the ones I've seen:

Very good:

The Band That Wouldn't Die
Silly Little Game
The U

Good:

The Dotted Line
Guru of Go
Once Brothers
Pony Excess
Straight Outta L.A.
Without Bias

Average/Not that hot:

Kings Ransom
Run Ricky Run
Small Potatoes
This can really only go poorly.

Corndog

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2011, 08:32:13 AM »
The Legend of Jimmy the Greek (Fritz Mitchell, 2009)

My knowledge of betting and gambling is very limited. I have never been in a casino or the Las Vegas, but when I was about 14 I did make it out to the local race track with the family. Through my parents I was able to place a little bet and lucky me, I won! It was a great thrill and I can see where people would becomes addicted to it, but I have used extreme caution and not bet since. Well, unless friendly poker games and football pools count. See? Even the people that claim they are not gamblers, are. I am a perfect example of this, and as such it can be assumed that America is a country of varying degrees of gamblers. And during his reign on top, Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder was perhaps the most successful gambler in the country.

Born in Steubenville, Ohio, Snyder grew up in a town where vice was overlooked and almost accepted. Soon he found that by asking the train conductors to bring the newspapers from every city they had been in, that he could use that local information to gain an edge in wagering. He made lots of money quickly and soon moved to Las Vegas where he continued his success by opening a business, but his real success came when CBS hired him for their Sunday morning football program The NFL Today. By hiring The Greek, CBS had legitimized his profession. And Jimmy was the perfect personality for television. The network was coy about their use of Jimmy, avoiding betting terminology and betting lines on the show. But soon, Snyder made racial comments that got him in hot water which he could not get out of.

I was not very surprised to learn that Jimmy the Greek was from Steubenville, Ohio. I'm not sure how many people are familiar with the little Eastern Ohio town, but being from Ohio myself I have heard my fair share of stories about mob fronts and mob connections. So for a famed gambler to come from that town was none too surprising. The life of Jimmy the Greek was also definitely an interesting path for such a man to take. He was massively successful, both financially and int he public eye once he gained his job on CBS. He was chastised for making the Colts 17 point favorites in the Super Bowl Joe Namath's Jets upset them, but little did they know his job was to set the line for equal betting on both sides. His street smarts is what made him great, but his street sense may have also been what brought him down.

The film takes a fairly straightforward approach to telling the story, much like in the previous installment Without Bias. I am beginning to see what the goal and direction of this series is going to be. After six episodes I have only been overly impressed by two of them, but with the experience of these six I have been educated about certain events that I did not know about before. The series is simple and with hour long episodes it is hard for it not to be. But for what it sets out to do, it is accomplishing its goals. For that it should be applauded, but from a filmmaking perspective there is nothing very impressive about the series. So from this point on I know what I can expect, and I don't want to confuse anyone, I am still having a good time with the series.

One of the main strengths of the film was how it dealt with the fall of Jimmy. While I cannot say that the film intentionally did this, or even touched on it with the interviews, but it certainly gave me something to think about when it comes to forgiveness in this society. Jimmy Snyder made a mistake and made some unfortunate comments. They were racial and uncalled for, but I would not call them racist, as they were actually saying that black athletes were superior to their white counterparts. The inability of America to forgive him for his words is sad and the result was Snyder looking dirty, living in Las Vegas, and asking his former producer for money. He went from the top straight to the bottom with no chance at redemption. I can't help but think that society picks and chooses who to forgive for their wrong doings. What will the documentary on Tiger Woods look like in 10-15 years?

**1/2
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AAAutin

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2011, 09:38:51 AM »
For that it should be applauded, but from a filmmaking perspective there is nothing very impressive about the series.

Wait until you get to NO CROSSOVER; it's a Steve James doc first and a 30 FOR 30 installment second. And while that may not necessarily be a good thing--I, for one, thought that the Jamesian flavor was to the film's detriment--it is, at least, a change of pace.

(Apologies for jumping ahead.)

Corndog

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2011, 10:47:08 AM »
No problem. That is one of the ones I am looking forward to because of James. And the series does have a few longer episodes which I am interested to see how the extra time can add to the formula thus far. The U is next and has a runtime around 100 minutes.
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jbissell

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2011, 11:00:00 AM »
The biggest shakeup in any formula is definitely Brett Morgen's June 17, 1994. The U is also at least a little stylistically different and fits well with its subject matter.

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2011, 11:38:10 AM »
The LA Raiders one is definitely unique.
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Antares

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2011, 11:46:34 AM »
My knowledge of betting and gambling is very limited.

I'm the exact opposite. My father was a bookie, and I knew how to figure the vigorish before I could recite my ABC's. As a young child, I always thought a bird cage was a three team parlay.  ;)

My father loved Jimmy the Greek, because every sucker listened to him, not knowing that he was basically working for all the bookies in the country. On Sundays, I would sit with my father, and we'd watch the pre-game show and a few seconds after Jimmy gave his picks, the phone would start ringing. My old man made a boatload of money thanks to the Greek. If everyone was going one way, he'd pick the other team to balance out the action.

Jimmy Snyder made a mistake and made some unfortunate comments. They were racial and uncalled for, but I would not call them racist, as they were actually saying that black athletes were superior to their white counterparts. The inability of America to forgive him for his words is sad and the result was Snyder looking dirty, living in Las Vegas, and asking his former producer for money.

The sad part of his story is that what he said was factually true. He stated that blacks had been bred specifically by slave owners in the 18th & 19th century to ensure bigger and stronger slaves to fetch more money at the slave markets. But being only a few months after the infamous Al Campanis interview, the PC police crucified him.
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Monty

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2011, 12:13:19 PM »
These are the ones I have watched in the past week or so and have rated as follows. Being from the UK the majority of these stories are new to me and apart from the Marion Jones episode held some genuine interest for me. The Two Escobars is still the best one I've seen so far, although I'm interested in seeing the Allen Iverson (I was quite a fan of his in his pomp) episode which is being shown this week.

ESPN 30 For 30 Marathon

1.   Marion Jones: Press Pause +* (John Singleton)  Rating
2.   Once Brothers +* (Michael Tolajian)  Rating
3.   The Two Escobars #* (Jeff Zimbalist & Michael Zimbalist, 2010)  Rating
4.   Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. The New York Knicks #* (Dan Klores,2010)  Rating
5.   Guro Of Go +* (Bill Couturié, 2010)  Rating
6.   The Birth Of Big Air +* (Jeff Tremaine, 2010)  Rating
7.   Straight Outta L.A. #* (Ice Cube, 2010)  Rating
8.   Without Bias +* (Kirk Fraser, 2009)  Rating
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Corndog

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2011, 04:22:52 PM »
Roll Tide/War Eagle (Martin Khodabakhshian, 2011)

The world of sports is ripe with big time rivalries between teams. Some of them are friendly and some of them are quite harsh. As a sports fan myself I have been involved in a number of rivalries as both an athlete and as a fan. My high school baseball team had rivals, but the real rivalries I want to talk about are my college teams. I attended the University of Cincinnati, who has a heated rivalry in basketball against nearby Xavier University. The recent brawl which broke out between the teams I think is perfect evidence of the intensity of the sports rivalry. Everyone who has a passion for a sports team has a passion against another team. In Alabama those two teams are Alabama and Auburn. Your choice is a game breaker.

The two universities are separated by just 160 miles and with no professional teams in the state every resident is fully involved in the bitter rivalry. Alabama has been the dominate team in the series, but the last two years have brought new meaning to the rivalry. In 2009, Alabama won another National Championship behind the strong, Heisman Trophy winning season of running back Mark Ingram, whose Heisman win was surprisingly the schools first in their storied history. But last year Auburn turned the tables on them and won a National Title of their own. In addition their star quarterback, Cam Newton, also won the highest honors in the sport, the Heisman Trophy.

In addition to my connection with the Cincinnati/Xavier rivalry, I have been much closer to an even greater rivalry in football, that of Ohio State and Michigan. I grew up in Columbus and live here now and every year the season as an Ohio State fan is based on the performance in the final game of the season against that state up north. I know what it is like to hate another team, even if I am not nearly as radical as some fans. But to live among the enemy as in the Alabama/Auburn rivalry is something with which I am unfamiliar. Director Martin Khodabakhshian does a good job of examining both sides and telling the tale of this unique rivalry. He interviews the stars and important figures from both sides as well as some of the split married couples.

Every fan believes that the rivalry they are involved in is the greatest in sports. I know I have always made that claim about OSU/UM, but the truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as the greatest in sports. Rather the best rivalry in sports is simply the one that means the most to you. For the Northeast it is predominately the Red Sox/Yankees, then there is the Cubs/Cardinals, Army/Navy, and any number of big time match-ups. Roll Tide/War Eagle is one of those rivalries that is unique in the hatred and the bizarre mutual respect. Not every fan is as radical as the Bama fan who poisoned the trees on Auburn's campus, and actually there is a heart in all of them, which shone brightest when tragedy struck the campus of Alabama last year as a tornado ripped through Tuscaloosa.

Last spring I actually went to Alabama for the first time of my life for a spring break trip on the Gulf. My friends and I decided it would be fun to say "Roll Tide" to everyone we saw. It was a fun practice, but we soon learned the other side of the coin in "War Eagle", which is the Auburn catch phrase which stems from an eagle flying over the stadium way way long ago. The amount of enthusiasm for their teams is admirable and I have a deep respect for what football means to the state of Alabama. Khodabakhshian does a great job of putting that on screen and even fitting it into the short amount of time he has. This is the type of rivalry that I am sure the Auburn fans are mad at ESPN for putting Roll Tide first in the title ahead of War Eagle, but let's face it, Roll Tide is a better catch phrase.

***
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Corndog

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2011, 07:32:12 PM »
The U (Billy Corben, 2009)

When I learned that one of the documentaries in the series was going to be "The U", my response was a simple "ugh". I detest that university and its football team for any number of reasons. When my Ohio State Buckeyes beat them in the National Championship game in January 2003, after Miami's head coach Larry Coker had said in a pre-game interview that given the chance he would run up the score, I was the happiest camper in the woods. They have always been so cocky and arrogant and annoying. Since that title game their prominence has dropped, especially after a near fatal scandal this past year, but after watching this documentary, I have a certain confidence that they will return at some point, and when that time comes I will have a new found respect for the program.

The University of Miami is located in the beautiful Miami neighborhood of Coral Gables and their football program had been a joke. They would lose games ugly to the point that the program was considered to be cancelled at one point. Then in 1979 the university hired a new head coach, Howard Schnellenberger, who came from the pedigree of Alabama's Bear Bryant and the Miami Dolphins of the NFL. He pledged to win a national championship by the time the new recruiting class graduated. He took a program that was down in the dumps and he made good on his promise in 1983. But soon the USFL came calling for Schnellenberger, but under coaches Jimmy Johnson and Dennis Erickson the team kept winning, and championships. But it came at the cost of the swagger they created and the players from tough neighborhoods they recruited. The Miami Hurricanes were the team of the 1980s.

I never knew half of what I do now about the program at the University of Miami, and that is after entering the film thinking I knew a fair bit. The job that Howard Schnellenberger did to create everything from nothing is astonishing. He went in with a plan, and that was to recruit the talented players he needed from the high school football hot bed of southern Florida. It sounds like an easy plan, and an obvious one at that, but not everyone wanted the players from troubled neighborhoods. Miami was in turmoil in the early 80s with racial conflict and drug problems. With the help of Schnellenberger some of that was trouble was alleviated. Certainly he didn't do enough to do away with the problems, but he gave some kids the opportunity to get out of that trouble.

And about the swagger that I hate and I know a lot of other people hate, when you sit down to Billy Corben's film you can't help but side with the Miami players who went out there and had fun playing a game. As many times as people say things like "act like you've been there before" or "grow up", I'm sorry but those people are wrong, especially after you watch this film. These guys were college kids playing a kids game and they were great at, and had fun at it. Their creation of this swagger, and the team's ability to follow through on it is admirable, even if the number of detractors is still understandable. And the program was not perfect. It had its fair share of kids who committed crimes and were unlikable guys.

Corben does a good job of matching the fun and swagger of the team with his filmmaking as well. Easily one of the most stylistically different films of the series and coincidentally the other one that wavers the most from the formula is also my other favorite of the series, Muhammad and Larry. Yes, that is right, you just heard me call this one of my favorites so far because while it tells me an interesting story about something I didn't know about, it does it in such a way that I cared and had a great time while watching, something that cannot be said about a few of the other entries in the series. I wonder how much that has to do with this film's extended runtime, but I definitely recommend this film for those that are fans of football.

***
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StudentOFilm

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2011, 10:25:26 PM »
I've seen the whole series and as someone who isn't much of a sports fan (I like watching games, but I don't really follow any particular team), some of these were absolutely amazing while a few others were just languishingly boring.

The Two Escobars is quite possibly the best of the bunch and would probably rank high on a list of my favorite documentaries.

Looking forward to reading the rest of the reviews.
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2011, 08:30:25 AM »
I'm excited to see Unmatched, being a huge tennis fanatic.

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2011, 09:47:56 PM »
Winning Time: Reggie Miller vs. The New York Knicks (Dan Klores, 2010)

Basketball is not my number one favorite sport, but it is one that is great nonetheless. That being said, I am definitely one of these who feel like the college game is better at because of the passion and emotion that those kids play with. Obviously the talent level in the NBA is far and away better, and I am even starting to get a little more into the pro game that I have been the last few years. But it was not always like that and I can say that during the 90s I loved watching the NBA and especially the playoffs. Michael Jordan ruled the day, but there were plenty of other major stars in the game. When Jordan decided to retire early it was guys like Patrick Ewing and Reggie Miller who carried the weight of the league, and they excelled at it.

Every sport has its rivalries and in the NBA in the 90s there was a nice little one between the New York Knicks and the Indiana Pacers. The instigator, even if he may be a little hesitant to admit it, was Reggie Miller who might have been the best trash talker in the league. Miller was always second best growing up in a family where his older sister was Cheryl Miller, perhaps the greatest female basketball player of all time and when the Pacers drafted the UCLA product over homegrown star Steve Alford, Miller had that much more to prove. Looking back on his career now he was a superstar, and he lead the Pacers team to a number of great seasons, even if none of them ended with a championship. But the few seconds which have come to sort of define his career came in Game 1 of the 1994 NBA playoffs.

Miller scored 8 points in 9 seconds in that game, but the film is more about the rivalry with the Knicks and being able to put that event into the right context for the viewer to further experience its greatness, and Dan Klores does a marvelous job of doing just that. First and foremost I was really taken by the tone of the film, which, for a film about rivalry, was surprising light and funny. Much of everything discussed was done so with a bit of jovial nostalgia about the times when they hated each other. This is such a strength when we are dealing with something like the sport of basketball because in the end it is a game and too often we see people taking it too seriously. You could tell that they really hated each other then, but you can also tell that hate has transformed into just a dislike with the silver lining that they helped create some great moments and memories.

At the same time the film captures why sports are so dramatic and what sells me as a fan. The pressure of the clock and the pressure of having the ball in your hands for a final shot are hard to match. The moment is so spontaneous and over so quick that if you blink you will most assuredly miss it, which would be a shame because sports create memories that last a lifetime. Reggie Miller had that edge during "winning time" and that is what made him a special player. Klores focuses just the right amount on Miller and all the events which surrounded the rivalry between the Knicks and Pacers.

At a little over an hour, which is slightly longer than the standard length in this series (51 minutes), the film uses its time wisely and efficiently, painting a perfect contextual tale to compliment the main event. That is what is important about these documentaries in this series. Sure, the filmmaker can pinpoint a momentous, naturally dramatic event, but it is what they do with it which sets the film apart, and Klores excels greatly in Winning Time. It is the stories with Spike Lee, and with Cheryl Miller, which turn this from a great sports story to a great film. And again I would like to compliment Klores on his style and by making the film as light and fun as it was because sports are supposed to be fun, even when some of the most dramatic events occur during them.

*** 1/2
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jbissell

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2011, 10:27:48 AM »
I should've absolutely HATED Winning Time because Reggie is one of my all-time despised athletes and the Knicks were my most hated team growing up but Klores did a great job.

Corndog

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Re: ESPN 30 for 30
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2011, 10:36:08 AM »
I loved Reggie growing up, but I just loved how the material was treated in a manner where it painted Miller out to be a villain type and a trash talker, but at the same time it showed how it was just a game and he did not do it maliciously, but just as a strategy to gain an edge over his opponent. Because of this it made it a hilarious journey down memory lane.
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